Whilst the last 200 years the technological advances of the enlightenment have provided immense amount of knowledge and practical advances in personal social cultural and political spheres. There is much still to be discovered at the intersection between living systems sciences and human energy fields. Curtis Ogden has long been on the edge exploring these interfaces. Curtis Ogden is a senior associate for the Interaction Institute for Social Change. He has extensive experience in education, community building, leadership development and program design, as well as a deep passion for efforts, that support environmental sustainability. In Phenomenal Conversation #28 with Curtis we will explore his unusual interest in energetics of systems and systems change, combined with his deep familiarity with multidisciplinary multistakeholder processes. Curtis demonstrates his keen interest through a consistently beautiful and wise social media presence, as well his evident ongoing commitment to transformation of self and society.

Curtis quotes Dr Sally J Goerner when she states ''Regenerative systems maintain their existence by constantly channeling critical flows back into nourishing their internal processes and organization and other forms of revitalization.” He also suggesst the notion of moving to a “ generative flow perspective” in efforts to reform and recreate systems. Otherwise changemakers risk not seeing regenerative reality as it is and how it works. In this co-exploration between Curtis and the gathered group we will explore concepts such as “flow networks” as well as ''energy systems science and practice” as a way of seeing and experiencing reality in an enlivening way. These perspectives are not novel to our species, but certainly something it seems many have forgotten from a dominant culture standpoint. As Gae Ho Hwako Norma Jacobs of the Cayuga Nation recently stated, "One of our greatest gifts is to remember." Where "re-remembering is to reintegrate ancient forms of knowing and being once more into the human soul

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